S1 E3. Marie Hamilton: Pleasure Experiences at the End of Life
Susie (00:00)
Welcome to Pleasure Morsels. This is a podcast dedicated to finding non normative roots into pleasure and sensuality through creative and sensory and spiritual, emotional tools and yumminess. So I'm really stoked to have Marie Hamilton here to chat with me all about her take on pleasure. So I love to let you introduce yourself.
Marie (she/they) (00:34)
Yes, of course. Hi, I'm Marie. And for those of you who can see video, this is my cat Theo, who is really, you know, understanding the assignment when it comes to pleasure. I am a harpist. I play primarily in long -term care facilities and in palliative care. Every moment is just full of magic when I'm in those spaces. And I just feel unending gratitude for all of the people that open their hearts and share those moments with me. And yeah, I have been doing it for a few years. When I first started playing the harp, not even a year in, people would come to me and ask, hey, my friend's mom has cancer and she's in hospice. Do you think you could come play for her? And I would respond, I don't really know how to play the harp, but yes. So from really early on, playing for people in therapeutic settings was interwoven with my journey of playing the harp. So it feels really special to be at a place in my journey where I can help support and connect people in that way on a regular basis. It's magical.
Susie (02:12)
So beautiful and having had the pleasure of seeing you play just in town. Yeah, I can really attest to the beauty and wonder that your music really evokes. It feels kind of in another world. You create this sort of other space that you really emphasize sharing and connecting.
Marie (she/they) (02:36)
Yes, definitely. Music for me, at the core of it is a deeply connective experience and a deeply human experience. Yeah, language and music are some of the things that make us human. And I had so much trouble during the pandemic when everything was so locked down and cut off and I had a bit of like an identity crisis or an existential crisis of like, what is music if it can't be shared? And that's kind of what led me to meaningfully pursue playing in long -term care facilities, seeing just on the news about all of the deaths and just the suffering in those spaces.
And you know there was at home and I just have this deep desire to bring comfort to the residents and to the staff working there. And so I actually started by cold calling these places and showing up with my little battery powered amp and pointing it towards their windows because they couldn't come outside and playing, you know, just volunteering, just being there offering my music to bring a little bit of sunshine in those dark times. And then that just kind of organically transformed into a job, which is wild.
Susie (04:25)
Good to know. Yeah. No more resumes, just stand outside the window.
Marie (she/they) (04:30)
Honestly, I was talking with someone yesterday about they went to a job interview and I was just like... That's more my job interview style. That 80s movie when he's holding the boombox above his head. That's just me with my harp.
Susie (04:53)
So yeah, there's really a lot of pleasure in that image too. It's like very funny and very wholesome, very off the wall. And so you have this unique insight into end of life that often is so sectioned away. So could you share with me? Where does pleasure belong in end of life?
Marie (she/they) (05:23)
Well, you know, I was actually just having this conversation with someone yesterday, in how there's something, you know, birth, sex, death are all linked and in my experience and in how animal, how human, how primal the experiences are. And often there's pain, but there's also pleasure in those spaces as well. But what I experienced and what I've observed, when someone is pregnant, as they're approaching that birth, they'll have all of these ideas of what they want. they'll, I'd like roses and a bathtub and harp music playing and essential oils and all of this stuff is happening. But then when they arrive there at that moment of giving birth.
They just go into their body and their body knows what they need. Their body knows what they need to go through this experience. And it's kind of, my friend who's a midwife was saying that they're often just like, fuck that, fuck that, get me on the toilet. And a lot of babies are born on the toilet just cause that's what our bodies want. It's comfy, it's familiar. And sex, it's this similar thing, the more you submit to your nature, you submit to the animal of you, the animal that is you, the more pleasure you can find, the more just sort of primal existence that's in that. And then with death, in what I've observed and what I've experienced, I guess I haven't had first -hand experience, but what I've observed. It's a similar thing in that as people approach the end of their lives, they have all these worries, they have all these fears, they have these ideas of what will this be like, what will this be like? And then when they get there, their bodies know what to do. Our bodies, just like our bodies are made to give birth, our bodies are to create, our bodies are made to have sex and our bodies are made to die. And when someone approaching the end of their life is able to kind of submit to that, kind of go into the animal of their body.
That is where magic happens. In that there's this deep calm and there's this release and watching someone move from a state of just restlessness and agitation and pain and fear into the release of death, into this space of allowing them to be themselves to be human to be an animal and to let go of their life it is one of the most magical things i've ever experienced personally. And I have a specific story I could tell you about that.
Susie (08:40)
Yeah, please. Yeah.
Marie (she/they) (08:42)
about two weeks ago on the palliative care floor. When I got on the floor and I was checking into the nurses, they told me that there was a new patient there been found on the streets in a pretty quite a state of distress and that the entire time he had been there he had been restless and agitated and just moaning and screaming and just pain pain and anguish and he was very young, I think barely 40, if that. And he had no next of kin, no friends, no family, just his name and his birth date. And so I went and I sat with him and I played for him. And as I sat down and played, I watched this transformation take place in that. You know, this sort of agitation in the body and just pain and the scrunched up face. It all started, he slowed, you know, he just laid his, he got a little quiet, a little slow and this scrunched up face and pain just...melted and melted away and he was relaxing. The longer I played the more the deeper he came into that place of relaxation and then I was like you know I'm gonna play one more song and during that last song his breathing shifted to quite shallow and rapid and breathing at the end of life was a whole other discussion but he's in this.
And then.
Big breath.
And then a second one.
And then this third one.
and then he was still.
I waited.
Because sometimes in that stage, breaths can be like 45 seconds apart. And so then I saw the nurse down the hall and I kind of beckoned, you know, to have her come. And she went and stayed by him and then confirmed that he had passed while I was playing. And when I told her, you know, that I'd been playing, that I was there, that I witnessed his last breaths. This is a nurse I've been working with for two years and for the first time ever, she just... tears, tears just fell. And she told me that that was exactly what they wanted for him. and watching that transformation, experiencing that moment with this man. I think what helped him let go and gently take his last breaths is that he felt held, he felt loved and being able to hold people in that way and then feel the pleasure of being held, feeling safe.
Susie (12:35)
Oof. Yeah, I'm, that's landing. It's really resonating. I think it's, yeah, just such a generous thing to offer, but also to be able to witness someone finally relaxing. that says a lot of trust that someone puts in you.
Marie (she/they) (13:02)
Definitely. I mean, the word that just comes to mind is honor. Like it really, it really is one of the deepest honors I've ever had in my life. experiencing those last precious moments and helping someone feel held and loved and... It's definitely... It feels weird to say that, but it feels like magic. You know? the unknown. But that feeling, I mean, I haven't died yet, but that I know of. But I, in my own life, especially right now I'm thinking of essential and sexual experiences I've had where when I can feel held and feel that trust and feel that safety, that security, that is when I can really release into my own body and then reach pleasure. feel, experience pleasure.
Susie (14:11)
I'm back in my cognitive brain now and thinking of, okay, there's this like really safe container. It's like establishing like firm trust in order to jump into the unknown. The mystery of dying, the like swirling goo, something or other of sex. that we can really let go once we, okay, it's okay to, I don't know what this is, but I'm waving my hands.
Marie (she/they) (14:49)
I just just per quick parentheses the swirling goo of sex just makes you think of slug porn.
Susie (14:57)
no, don't think about slug porn.
Marie (she/they) (14:59)
Why not?
Susie (15:03)
no, don't think about it. Don't think about slimy, gooey slugs having sex, twirling around each other in opalescent ectoplasm. Don't think about that.
Marie (she/they) (15:12)
and then they finally drop at the end. They let go.
Susie (15:14)
They just drop. Yeah.
Marie (she/they) (15:17)
They feel safe and they release. And birth too, there's that, you know, for the person giving birth, maybe for the baby too, that release into the unknown, this life coming out of you, or you coming into the world. Like, what? Like, I haven't done that. I mean, I've been born. I don't remember it, unfortunately. I've never given birth, but I imagine.
there must be similarities there in that if you're able to find this container, this way of feeling held and safe, that you can go forward and do these things that seem unknown or scary, and create through that, and experience through that.
Susie (16:12)
I feel like you're answering the question I'm about to ask. But it's around supporting folks who may be finding it challenging or rigid to let that pleasure channel through. And I wonder if. when you felt a little sticky of where you go to to get that sensual. expression when it comes to your creative work, but you know, if you want to talk about relationships too.
Marie (she/they) (16:52)
when I'm specifically playing the harp, when I'm trying to really reconnect with my harp. I mean, there's that sort of breathing and like, I really just hold the instrument to me and kind of get close in. There's like a certain physicality that's involved with connecting with my instrument. But it's really like leaning into it and enjoying the physical sensation of just my fingers on the string, how that friction feels and my finger pads and sometimes I won't even play the strings, I'll just kind of squeeze them. I'll squeeze them in my hands and feel that connection, feel that tension, feel that, that pull and that play. And, and I'll explore, I start very simple with just like a few little notes and really listen to that and see what that feels like. And then I kind of just follow my body into the experience when I'm improvising.
And it's these waves and then simultaneously with that sort of like embodied experience of playing the harp, I kind of come back to this like place of like childlike wonder or like playfulness of like not worrying about making mistakes, not worrying about being perfect or whatever, but just like exploring and being curious and it's funny how like both of those energies interact because there's this like very deep sort of siren sort of almost a dark, but I don't know how to explain that energy.
Susie (19:00)
I see you're kind of making claw fingers and like scooping from your hips up.
Marie (she/they) (19:06)
There's that energy, but then intermingled with this sort of playfulness. And when I can find that perfect balance between the two is when I feel like I'm right in that perfect spot, right in that center where I can create and explore. And I mean, that is just specifically talking about the heart, but that is very... But it is also very... It definitely translates to so many other things.
Susie (19:38)
Totally, totally. It's about the heart. it's so sweet how you're describing, like beginner's mind, or, this is open curiosity. And rather than jumping into what you should be doing, or how to produce a certain sound and what to end with, you're exploring how you receive it on your skin. different ways of coming into contact. So it's like you're both warming up. It's a respectful way to treat an object for sure, as it's like a, it's an entity.
Marie (she/they) (20:19)
Exactly. Definitely. And like a big part of that too is like silencing that inner critic that comes out in those moments when I'm trying to play and it's like, that sounds bad.
Susie (20:42)
Yeah, what do we do with that guy? Can we like give it a snack or like what's the your way of distracting the critic while you're trying to be intimate?
Marie (she/they) (20:54)
just asking the critic, who hurt you? Who hurt you? It's okay. Like, no, don't worry, don't worry about it. What does bad mean? Who are you thinking about when you're making those judgments? Who are you perceiving, perceiving you? Who are you, like, what is, what are these lenses that you're looking at that through?
And like, this will sound bad to this person or to that or because of this. And it's like, why am I trying to satisfy these people who don't even exist? And why can't I just be in this moment enjoying the simple act of, of what I'm doing, enjoying the simplicity of creating, enjoying the simplicity of feeling, experiencing.
I don't know, what is the meme? I might be messing up the meme. There's one with an astronaut looking at earth and there's a gun and a gun and there's also one with Spider -Man. It's like, doesn't matter. Don't worry about them. Just, just focus on you, It's just you, you're just there. Just be. You know?
Susie (22:30)
These all feel like very compassionate and kind of silly ways of responding to a very rational and worried part of self. So rather than meeting it with the same, which just, it's very contagious and you can get into all kinds of trouble. You, you diffuse it and like, Hey, maybe you're just Spiderman pointing a gun at another Spiderman. That's just you.
Marie (she/they) (22:59)
Have you considered this?
Susie (23:03)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Marie, I feel really, I'm going to use your word, honored to hear your stories and hear your process about pleasure and play and birth and sex and death. Is there anything else that I should have asked, but didn't?
Marie (she/they) (23:36)
That's a great question.
Susie (23:37)
Thanks, I stole it from Dan Harris.
Marie (she/they) (23:40)
Ha ha. This is kind of more less less palliative care and more long -term care.
I kind of love how it's never too late to find pleasure. Sometimes we think we've missed it, we missed the boat on pleasure. We missed the boat on love, we missed the boat on fulfillment. That we're just stuck in who we are, where we are. And I see time and time again, how that's not necessarily the case. And one of my favourite things about working and playing harp in long -term care facilities is watching the couples forming, watching people falling in love. It's so beautiful and I mean I don't know much about what that looks like, what pleasure looks like in those relationships, but there there's this one couple. She had some memory and cognition issues and he was blind. And I watched over the course of many months as they got closer and closer and started falling in love. And it was so beautiful because he would remember for her and she would see for him. And they are both in wheelchairs and they would kind of wheel themselves out whenever I'd come to play. And they'd ask me to play love songs and they'd just sit there holding hands.
And both of them have many physical and cognitive limitations. But even in the simplicity of just holding someone's hand, I would watch their faces, their smiles, the electricity of connection in those moments. And it's so, so beautiful. I mean, they were, I don't know exactly how old they were, but like eighties maybe.
And yeah, like it seems that pleasure, I mean, earlier I said music and language are what make us human, are just deeply human parts of our existence, but pleasure is too, and it's never too far away. That's just what I wanted to say.
Susie (26:19)
That is such a sweet cherry to put on the top of this very decadent Sunday. Yeah, thank you for that last part. Yeah, it's I think tempting to call it cute or sweet. And it's like this is life giving. This is crucial. It like prevents disease, touch and trust and contact with another person. I think hospitals need to think about this really crucially as like healthcare. I won't go into it, but I mean, I think we both agree that to allow and encourage that kind of contact is, I think, a great recipe against burnout for staff, right? And to increase quality of life and meaning.
Marie (she/they) (27:16)
I don't, this is probably a thing, but I just don't know about it. But I often will be there and I'm just like, like, what does like sex work look like at end of life? What does sex work look like in long -term care facilities and like all of this? And how is there a way to incorporate this into care? Because touch pleasure in that way is so crucial. So I don't know anything about it. I have nothing to contribute other than I think it would be a really good thing.
Susie (28:00)
I think the fact that you asked the question is a big contribution. Yeah, I have many thoughts for another episode.
Marie (she/they) (28:10)
I want to hear all of them on that other.
Susie (28:12)
Yes. Yes. Thank you. A thousand thank yous for your presence, for your time.
Marie (she/they) (28:23)
It's my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me to talk and listen and share. It's very fun.