S2E2. Bhavna Purswani: Energy Healing is a Pleasure Portal

• Our energy body is another aspect of ourselves, and it is important to take care of it for our overall well-being.

• Setting boundaries and regulating our energy can help prevent burnout, especially for individuals who are sensitive to energy.

• The sacral chakra, associated with pleasure and creativity, is often linked to people-pleasing behaviors.

• Integrating the mind and body, challenging colonialist structures, and prioritizing pleasure can lead to a more fulfilling and pleasurable life.

• Cultivating a pleasure-centered life requires self-compassion, letting go of guilt, and integrating pleasure into our daily experiences.

*edit: Hong Kong was a colony handed back to China in 1909, not to England.

Learn more about working with Bhavna Purswani

http://www.BhavnaEnergyHealing.com

http://www.instagram.com/BhavnaEnergyHealing

Susie (01:03.391)

Hello and welcome to Pleasure Morsels. This is a podcast podcast the less traveled paths navigating towards pleasure. I'm Susie Showers, your host, and I'm here with Bhavna Perswani, who is a trauma informed counselor and energy therapist. She holds an MA in counseling psychology, accredited by the British Association of Counseling and Psychotherapy.

She has extensive training in energy healing from the Energy Healing Institute in Washington and the Psychic Horizons Center in Colorado. Her approach combines trauma -informed care and evidence -based counseling with energy healing to facilitate profound shifts in clients' lives, addressing their holistic well -being. Her expertise harmonizes spiritual and scientific healing dimensions.

creating a trusting environment where clients feel seen, heard, and empowered to explore their identities and beliefs. She creates a warm, professional atmosphere for transformational healing journeys. Beyond her professional work, she is a neurodivergent third culture kid who enjoys movement, building relationships, and delving into research. Currently based in Montreal, she's also lived in Dubai, England, Hong Kong and Kuwait, enriching her perspective and connecting her deeply with people from diverse backgrounds. What a treat to have you here with me ready to chat about your work and your life and your your pathways to pleasure.

Bhavna (02:50.254)

thank you for asking me. I'm so happy to be here.

Susie (02:55.647)

Let's dive right in. So this word energy, it's thrown around a lot, right? So I want to know how you yourself relate to this word.

Bhavna (03:06.19)

Yeah, so I kind of see it as just one more aspect of ourselves. So the same way we have a physical body, a mental body, an emotional body, we also have an energy body. And I do like to compare it to the word as it is thrown around, because it is relevant, because sometimes people will be like, I love your energy. And it's usually someone they've just met.

and they don't know enough about them to know what they like about them, but they've picked up on something, you know, whether it's like just intuitive or, you know, subconscious cues that they've been picking up on or literal energy, they've picked up on the essence of the person and they know that they want to talk to them a bit more or they want to connect with them a bit more. And I think that's where energy becomes really relevant.

I think because as a society and as like a whole, we don't know that much about energy. So it can kind of stand in for a lot of other words. And that's so fine too. But in the very kind of traditional or defined sense, I see it as another aspect of ourselves.

Susie (04:24.799)

I'm hearing it, what I'm taking from that is an essence that another person feels drawn to that's kind of beyond words.

Bhavna (04:38.094)

Absolutely. And also what draws you to certain places, people, activities, is that interaction between your energy and the energy of a community, for example. You know, there's things we were drawn to a community without necessarily even knowing too much about them sometimes. And then as we go in, we're like, this is such a good fit.

it kind of ties into that following your intuition.

Susie (05:16.031)

Beautiful. Okay. It's nice to have that as kind of we've operational definitions, right? If we go into the silence, what, what energy here are we working with? and in your work, you're, supporting folks who are suffering with burnout. and here we are talking about pleasure. So I'm curious how you see these two things working together or not.

Bhavna (05:21.998)

Definitely. So often, there's people who are sensitive to energy are usually people who are feeling things out energetically. And if you don't know how to take care of your energy body, you know, the same way with our physical bodies, we shower, we brush our teeth. We have like a process of hygiene, like a daily self care routine. A lot of people don't know how to do that for, you know, initially I feel like people start learning about, okay, how do I do this for my mental health? And it's different for different people. And then I feel like there's an additional step that we don't learn about, which is how do I do this for my energy body? Cause if you're out there, interacting with people in, for example, deeper ways because of what you do. Or if you're just someone who's very, you know, sees themselves as an empath and can pick up on a lot of things, you also need to know at the end of the day how to bring your energy back to yourself and how to close some of these channels and how to also voluntarily be able to be like, I think I'm overextending energetically.

You know, I need to know, develop enough of a relationship with my energy body to be like, okay, that feels like a bit too much. And then often people can pick up on when it feels like a bit too much, but they don't know how to stop. So some of that is, some of the work we do is becoming aware of, this is what it feels like when I'm overextending energetically from this space. And often women or people raised as women or just anyone, AFAB is usually giving from the same energetic space, which is linked to our pleasure.

Susie (08:00.479)

I was, I'm hearing you and then something in me woke up. The place we're giving from as AFAB folks is the same place as pleasure comes from.

Bhavna (08:05.678)

Yes, yes, exactly. So it's very much, it's our sacral chakra. A lot of people know that space is our sacral chakra. And the same place that we integrate our pleasure, our sexuality, our creativity, our emotionality is also a space, the same space in your body and the same space in your energy that is linked to people pleasing.

So it's a really interesting back and forth. Because once we start regulating that energy center, not only will you feel less burnt out, but you will have a huge, much bigger capacity for pleasure.

Susie (09:00.511)

So here's something that comes up in my therapy practice and in me personally as a recovering slash recovered people pleaser. And it's not exactly what you're talking about, but I hope it connects. When that realization comes in, I've been giving to others at the expense of knowing myself. The pendulum swings the other way really extreme. And every no, it's like that. No, and it gets a little like yeah go for it you're in your power, but it can also have unwanted consequences And I've seen that that I work with. what's going on there?

Bhavna (09:45.71)

Yeah, so very often as a part of the, in addition to doing the energy regulation practices, we'll also do a lot of psychoeducation. So there's also going to be, there's an additional step which people often overlook and it's like, I'm trying to keep this succinct, but I just keep wanting to go down huge challenges.

Are you familiar with Kirsten Neff's work on self -compassion? So she's recently been talking about this fierce self -compassion. So it's the same self -compassion that's like, it's like very mama bear is like a good way to, you know, is a good example. So it's just like, say she gives an example of her in a line at a theme park or a zoo, I believe, with her child. And I may get this example completely wrong, but I think it'll work for this.

There's another parent there who turns around and kind of snaps at her child unnecessarily and out of context. And she just feels the surge of like, absolutely not, you know, and kind of scoops her child up and tells this person to back off. And that is something that often as people pleasers, we can lose that reflex or we've overridden that reflex so much that it's kind of just a bit lost. However, I often talk to people about how this anger comes from a

deep sense of self -love. It's not coming from a lashing out. It's not coming from a fearful place of I need to protect myself. And that's where it kind of, you can distinguish it from just this intellectual understanding of, I need to say no. And that can come, just having that intellectual understanding, I think can make that pendulum swing, but also, you know, how do I say this? Supporting that understanding with...

This is way more actually, this is a much more pleasurable process when it's coming from this really deep well of love. And I'm not talking about the love and light love. I'm not talking about, you know, the kind where you're trying to just be really polite with someone else. It is still an impassioned no. But there's a difference between an impassioned no and a lashing out no. Does that make sense?

Susie (12:10.911)

Great. Yes. Yeah.

Bhavna (12:12.878)

Yeah. So I think combining those to answer your question very directly, combining those three things, one is introducing self -compassion into the mix. Because once you start being nice to yourself, it's very hard not to be nice to others. You know, it's like the boundaries you set inevitably become kinder. And then also just understanding. I've lost my train of thought. I feel like there were three different things.

Susie (12:42.687)

You said there's about psycho education impassioned No versus lashing-out No,

Bhavna (12:50.798)

And then the energy regulation piece kind of helps integrate it really naturally. Yeah, yeah, it's still work, it's still practice, but it's gentler integration.

Susie (13:06.239)

So I can imagine it as like it's come, the boundary is coming from a deeper place of self love and understanding what you're capable of and not. That's maybe the more important. And then the lashing out is I think you were saying, I should say no here. It's more in the kind of the cognitive hair trigger. Three simple steps to saying no. That's it, yeah. Three simple lifelong steps.

Bhavna (13:40.526)

Very simple but not easy steps. Yes, that's it. That's exactly it.

Susie (15:14.895)

Okay, so as a third culture kid, you've lived in a lot of countries. You're gonna have this unique perspective on colonialist structures that what is it that we're not getting right about pleasure?

Bhavna (15:35.502)

it's really ironic that you say that because I feel like every single move of mine has corresponded to some colonial, it's linked, it's completely linked to colonialism. So for example, I was born in Kuwait because my granddad had to leave his home state of Sindh because he was a Hindu in what was now Muslim Pakistan. And he had to, you know, for fear of persecution, he left and then ended up in Kuwait. And that's how I was born there. And then me and my parents were on vacation in Hong Kong where my dad had a business. And that's when Iraq invaded Kuwait and the Gulf War broke out. So that's how we ended up in Hong Kong and we were really lucky, but my dad's family also lived there and had to be evacuated.

And it was, it was a very distressing process from, you know, everything I've heard. And then in Hong Kong, because my dad had his own business. It was literally a colony and it was being handed back to the British* in, I think it was 1909. And that's when we left because my dad was really worried about whether he could continue his business if Hong Kong was kind of subsumed back into China.

in a very particular way. So there was a lot of fear around and uncertainty. So we moved to Dubai to join my dad's family there. And it's just been one thing after the other. Like every move has had, has been a consequence of these things. But yeah. To go back to your question about pleasure, I think to be very reductive maybe almost about it.

The biggest difference I see is this difference between the mind and the body and the lack of kind of integration and just more and more as the entire world becomes more globalized there is this like validation that the analytical part of the mind gets over the body or over the more subconscious mind and it's it's assumed to be the kind of driver, whereas, you know, we're realizing now that that's not true. That's not how it is at all. Like we need to really be our whole selves to feel joy, to feel pleasure, to feel satisfaction. And that's one of the biggest differences I see in just even the way we conceive of relationships here is very heady.

And, you know, sometimes it's just nice to share space with someone without feeling the need to talk, for example, or share an activity together or, I don't think there's a very, intellectual way to explain it, but I know that when I travel, it just, I just feel deeply that like my body is being almost prioritized in certain spaces. And it's not necessary for me to explain myself intellectually to be fully understood or accepted in certain contexts, if that makes sense.

Susie (19:20.319)

I mean, as a somatic practitioner, I see we're all walking around with our heads floating on these sort of fluffy meat sacks. It's completely disconnected. What I hear you say is that in relationships, in colonial culture, we are wanting to be productive. Our conversations must have a goal. And we choose people to ensure security in material ways. And there's a hunger from white supremacy, that it's insatiable hunger. When you tell your story about how you've been displaced, I feel like a tiny molecule of the grief from my white supremacy.

And so I hope I'm not kind of making it about me, but like to sit with that tiny molecule that I'm able to access, because any more is too overwhelming. I wonder if there's a path to pleasure, like beckoning there, is to actually feel in amongst all of this numbness in my lineage.

Bhavna (21:00.014)

For sure, for sure. I think for me the path is always through play, especially interpersonally. Like if I can get someone to play with me and just drop their narrative for one second and just be silly and nonsensical and not linear and illogical, the more illogical we can be the better.

That's when I'm like, okay, we've started to open up this path towards something else, you know? And it's like, I don't want to have to make sense all the time because I already make sense as a person. You know?

Susie (21:45.023)

Thank you for that. I felt my chest loosen up and like I felt my shoulders wriggling. I'm like, yeah, actually that's a language that is very shared, wherever we come from. Yeah, it's a lose control a bit and connect through the imagination.

Bhavna (22:06.67)

Absolutely, absolutely. And then like, to start feeling pleasure in, I don't know, this is for me very basic, but just if I'm walking from A to B, and I can sense the sun on my skin, and I want to like touch a tree as I'm walking past it, or, and then really just for me, especially energetically, when I can see that somebody's embodied, or I focus on energetic embodiment for myself, that's the first thing that comes online.

Is all of a sudden it's like being alive and sensations feel good, like they feel delicious and you're like, maybe I don't need to, and I don't want to make it sound like complicated intellectual narratives are bad and body is good because there's so much to be gained from complicated intellectual narratives, but it's really about how do we integrate these two? How do we not prioritize one over the other? How do we allow them to have this relationship where they're dancing and it's taking us to a place that feels naturally satiating?

Susie (23:22.303)

So if someone who is listening feels maybe frustrated by this or you know it's like well that's nice for you but I've got this life where I need to get from A to B as fast as possible like life is responsibility there's people who depend on me it just seems frivolous or nice but impossible to be able to touch a tree.

Bhavna (24:02.03)

I have so much to say about that.

Susie (24:06.271)

I mean, me too, but you know, it's, I think really common to hear the like, rest and play and enjoy and maybe it's too big of a question, right? Like what is the block and how to kind of chip away and find a way through.

Bhavna (24:25.326)

Yeah, I think sometimes when, because I have a tendency to feel like things are frivolous. And it used to be much bigger. And I think just reminding myself of my why, like, why am I doing certain things? Like, for example, if you know, certain people are like the example you gave of certain, this person having a lot of responsibility, and people are depending on them. And it's like, but what is the end goal of all of this, right? You're trying to, if you have children, for example, you want them to be, happy maybe is too broad a word, but you want them to be content, you want them to have meaning, you want them to be enjoying themselves. And it's like, that's when you really dig a bit deeper, the why is kind of the answer, like, and you have to remind yourself that this is just as serious as other things. And with regards to time, it doesn't have to be going to a tree.

It's, I mean, it's about finding the beauty in your existing, like if you're going from A to B as fast as you can on a bus, for example, it's you're still able to look outside usually and see things that may conjure up a sense of relaxation perhaps or a sense of curiosity or you know even if it's just if you're walking from A to B you can still feel the wind or the sun or whatever you know and then I don't know yeah just just remembering the why

Susie (26:08.863)

it's making me feel earlier when you said talking about boundaries and the impassioned no versus the should no, that this seems like an impassioned yes. It comes from that deeper place of like, this is the why, this is a kind of a compass navigation. And so slowing down and enjoying the sensory of the present is an effect.

Bhavna (26:35.982)

Yeah, and also this idea that it needs to be separate from our day to day is also a myth because it's like that's, you know, the whole point of this is to integrate it into your day to day. It's not something and even when you say slowing down, I imagine certain people might think they need more time, but it's during the same amount of time. Like you're on a bus that's going to take 15 minutes to get from A to B. What is your mind doing then? Can you help your mind slow down so you can arrive in a different, having experienced some joy and some pleasure?

Susie (27:15.615)

This is so satisfying because my next question is very much about this. How can an individual, a single person, start to cultivate a pleasure -centered life? And can it be done alone?

Bhavna (27:36.654)

I think like a lot of the how we've covered. I think there is a big piece about putting guilt down. And a lot of us have been trained with guilt. And it's also how we motivate ourselves, you know, with the stick rather than the carrot.

I think a lot of it is about feeling like we deserve these things as much as we deserve our physical needs taken care of. This is a very big part of feeling, you know, when people are looking for purpose, and when people are looking for meaning, I feel like pleasure is a building block to that. And it's not a step you can skip.

Otherwise, the meaning and the purpose you create may be really unsatisfying because it's only taken into account one part of you rather than all of you. So I think that's really a huge step. And can it be done alone? I know for me, I really needed that, like the help of a practitioner to help me pivot and to help me turn towards other things. And now that I have those skills and those tools, yes, it's easier to build upon it myself. But also to circle back to what we talked about before this podcast, where it's like, if you want to sustain the pleasure, it needs to be mixed with enjoyment. And usually that enjoyment comes from other people. So sharing an amazing meal with someone else will help turn that pleasure into something a little more sustainable. Or sharing a visual feast, like, you know, an art exhibit with someone else will also help turn it into something more sustainable. So yeah, I think there's parts of it that can be done alone and parts of it we definitely need each other.

Susie (28:36.758)

Thank you so much, Bhavna Purswani. You can learn more about her and how to work with her through the links in the show notes. And I would love to know what you thought of this episode, if it changed your perspective on anything, if it gave you a little burst of pleasure. And you can DM me on Instagram @pleasuremorsals. I am Susie Showers and thank you for listening.